38 replies to this topic

[Third Flower]

Hello everyone! It is your favorite flower here - yes, that's right, the third one, harh harh. After the smashing success of my "How excited are you about this game?" thread ( http://mwomercs.com/...bout-this-game/ ), I don't mind telling you, that my excitement level was at at least 11/10. However, if you read through that thread, you will see it drop very quickly, because of concerns about this game - in my case, the moderation of the forums.

So! I want to discuss our main concerns about this game. Whether you've invested in the founder's packs, or you've invested time and energy into the community like me, you're probably fairly committed to this game. You most likely, like me, want to see it succeed and you want to enjoy it. But! There's a worry, in the back of your mind, that something - THAT thing - will be wrong or missing. This is a thread to discuss those worries, and hopefully for the developers to have another, more informal, point of view on matters. As such, I want people to feel free to mention any concern they have, not just the ones I've listed above. Discuss and debate what could lessen or ruin your fun, and get some of that built up fear, trepidation or worry out of your system!

To return to my own concerns, they center around the forums. I have always enjoyed using forums, and I believe that my posting history here proves that I am a strong contributor to any engaging community. I've come to enjoy the social aspect of forums as part of the games I play, and I find interacting with other players to be my main source of enjoyment - both in-game and out of the game. That is why I am so concerned about the actions of the moderation team, because they can effectively kill off a large part of what is enjoyable about a multi-player, PvP game's forums - the exchanges and discussions shared by rivals, friends and enemies alike, in one central place. A space for development of new ideas, new concepts, new stories and new content, is in danger because of mismanagement or lone rogue moderators acting out of order.

I've both witnessed and experienced multiple instances of horrendous moderation, that did not follow any of the basics of moderating a large, diverse community. This is no surprise, given that the moderation team appears to be formed from a group of fans, rather than by hired professionals. I can't fault anyone for doing this, when trying to develop an expensive concept such as MWO, but it is really starting to show. A recent example, from a little over a week ago - and the incident which lowered my excitement levels considerably - was when a moderator moved the thread for my Clan, Clan Smoke Trees ( http://mwomercs.com/...s-headquarters/ ) from the correct Clan forum to the incorrect Off Topic forum.

It should be obvious to anyone, that my thread belongs where it was originally posted, and is not in any way off-topic. At the very least, it should be in the mercenary forum, or whichever "in-game group with basic lore made by players" forum the moderator team deems appropriate. The last thing it is though, is off topic. It was very much on topic, except when a few jokesters decided that Clan Smoke Trees sounded like a clever way of referring to illegal drugs. I clearly stated that this was not the case, that Clan Smoke Trees is not a reference to marijuana cigarettes or anything like it, but a reference to a particular tree. I even asked the jokesters to calm their joking-arms a bit, and cut it out, and they complied. So in other words, the off-topic discussion was cut off at the root, and the thread was ready for its intended purpose, when a moderator decided to - without communication or warning at all - move my thread.

I've been trying really hard to go through the possible reasons for this, but frankly I keep coming back to personal malice or incompetence. The level of discourse in that thread was rather high at times, and dealt with serious issues. I cannot blame a moderator, chosen not for any kind of communicative skills, but only for dedication to a franchise, for not having the necessary training and experience to fully comprehend such a discussion. It is, however, disturbing that no attempts at communication were made. That points increasingly towards personal malice, or a personal choice to not try to understand the thread and judge it fairly.

So, to sum up, my concerns with this game, is how the community will be managed. Currently, I'm seeing a lot of really bad missteps, from a moderation team that will most likely soon be moderating even more active forums, once the open beta rolls around. At such a time, if the moderation team and the community cultivation do not live up to the standard of the game, then I will have a hard time enjoy MWO, or justifying spending money on it.

What say you, dear children of this forum? What is YOUR main concern, and what could potentially ruin YOUR fun? The lines are open, so give us a call (vote or post - just a lil' radio humor for ya!).

- Roger T. Flower, III.

[Targetloc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

[BinaryDuck]

I am not playing yet. =(

Edited by PsicoPato, 09 July 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Harabeck]

Targetloc, on 09 July 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

http://en.wikipedia....soning_the_well

[Third Flower]

Targetloc, on 09 July 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

While I am sure that wikipedia are very happy with the extra traffic, could you perhaps add something constructive to the thread, instead of spamming your favorite website? If it continues, I'm afraid I'll have to report you for spamming, and I'd rather hear your honest thoughts instead.

[00seven]

My main concern is that I have to type responses to negative posts from "committed" players instead of responding with firepower.
Ni.

[Hawkeye 72]

Too much awesome

I mean...how many members may suffer cardiac arrests this summer/fall?

Trauma wards better be on standby!

[Third Flower]

00seven, on 09 July 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

My main concern is that I have to type responses to negative posts from "committed" players instead of responding with firepower.
Ni.

I can understand that sentiment - I think we are all looking forward to doing battle in our chosen battlewagons on the fields of honour and honor.

[Damascas]

Definitely the community, this is a team game and trolls exist.

[Chronojam]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Definitely the community, this is a team game and trolls exist.

Perhaps I am reading too much into your few words on the subject here but your concern seems to relate to community warfare and how mercenary company / house unit registrations will be audited, and what structure will be available to manage member hierarchies within those organizations.

I would imagine that any robust system would allow the organizers to maintain a reasonable set of standards and self-policing; for example, only the most noble of tetatae will be allowed to roost with the Word of Lowtax regulars. Let's hope it is at least as sophisticated as the clan/platoon management we see in other modern games.

[Torment2]

Third Flower, on 09 July 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

While I am sure that wikipedia are very happy with the extra traffic, could you perhaps add something constructive to the thread, instead of spamming your favorite website? If it continues, I'm afraid I'll have to report you for spamming, and I'd rather hear your honest thoughts instead.

I dismiss your dismissal because you dismissed his dismissal.

DISMISSED!

[Third Flower]

chronojam, on 09 July 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Perhaps I am reading too much into your few words on the subject here but your concern seems to relate to community warfare and how mercenary company / house unit registrations will be audited, and what structure will be available to manage member hierarchies within those organizations.

I would imagine that any robust system would allow the organizers to maintain a reasonable set of standards and self-policing; for example, only the most noble of tetatae will be allowed to roost with the Word of Lowtax regulars. Let's hope it is at least as sophisticated as the clan/platoon management we see in other modern games.

I believe the person you quoted could instead be concerned with so called Team Killers - or TK'ers for not really that short. That is certainly a valid concern, and I would hope the developers have some sort of report system in place, that will allow users to easily report players for reasons such as TK'ing (that is Team Killing, as in the act of killing members of one's team, not killing the organisational unit called a team, since that is a purely social construction, and as such can not be killed, only ignored, modified or forgotten).

[marcus elgin]

I'm concerened about the impact this game will have on the wider Battletech community. I have some faith in the developers from what I've see of the game so far, which isn't much thanks to the NDA, but this is game is probably going to have a major impact on the whole series into the foreseeable future.

As much as some of the older hands around here might not like it, this game is going to bring in a large number of players who have little to no knowledge of Battletech. The past has taught us when a Mechwarrior game is done well the wide series reaps the reward. How many were, like myself, brought into the world of Battletech by Mechwarrior 2 and only later moved on to playing on the table top? The past decade has also taught us, among other things, the dangers of losing the attention of possible new players.

Much of the communtiy is fairly open to accomadating these new players, but too often there are insular notes in both the player and developer community. These actions, such as taking the source material as seriously as a religious text, or unwarrented and unexplained moderation risks losing the next generation of players and dooming the brand to a slow and insular death.

Also buff ACs and implement melee. That's probably actually a bigger concern. Probably shouldn't have wasted the essay on the previous point. Oh well.

Edited by marcus elgin, 09 July 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Chronojam]

Third Flower, on 09 July 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

I believe the person you quoted could instead be concerned with so called Team Killers - or TK'ers for not really that short. That is certainly a valid concern, and I would hope the developers have some sort of report system in place, that will allow users to easily report players for reasons such as TK'ing (that is Team Killing, as in the act of killing members of one's team, not killing the organisational unit called a team, since that is a purely social construction, and as such can not be killed, only ignored, modified or forgotten).

For a few moments I was confused, because what else would he encounter-- Team Pacifists? We're all on a killing team when we play these wargames. The distinction, I suppose, is which team your killing team is killing. If the killing team is teeming with team killers, there's cause for concern. Unlike first person shooters, it would be hard to incapacitate an entire team solo or quickly, at least.

[Third Flower]

chronojam, on 09 July 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

For a few moments I was confused, because what else would he encounter-- Team Pacifists? We're all on a killing team when we play these wargames. The distinction, I suppose, is which team your killing team is killing. If the killing team is teeming with team killers, there's cause for concern. Unlike first person shooters, it would be hard to incapacitate an entire team solo or quickly, at least.

I agree - of course there would be cause for concern, if the team of killers is teeming with team killing team members, bent on team killing their own team (that is, the members of, not the social construct, as mentioned earlier). Have any of these words lost meaning to anyone else yet?

In either case, I feel that a good design should allow easy reporting of other players - enemy, friendly or otherwise persuaded - for whatever reason the reporting player feels necessary. I also feel that not all reports should be allowed, except for those the developers think should be allowed. Furthermore, I believe that a single player should be able to incapacitate an entire team solo or quickly, if they so desire, but not in this game.

To sum it up, I roughly agree with you precisely.

[GreatBeer]

More than anything, I'm really excited to see what they do with Community Warfare. I'm hoping for something a little more substantial than random battles and that can involve more than just clan leaders telling the rest of us when to log in and shoot people like in WoT.

[Adm Awesome]

yeah a bit of moderation, I just got a "warning" letter from some random staff dude for saying "retarded" in a thread, sorry I forgot I was back in 5th grade. The worse part is I wasn't calling someone, or something retarded. If anything I was trying to say people were calling me retarded. I could MAYBE understand a warning if I was flaming someone by calling them retarded. Snap I just said retarded like 5 times, I hope I'm not banned this time.

[MuffinTop]

Adm Awesome, on 09 July 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

yeah a bit of moderation, I just got a "warning" letter from some random staff dude for saying "retarded" in a thread, sorry I forgot I was back in 5th grade. The worse part is I wasn't calling someone, or something retarded. If anything I was trying to say people were calling me retarded. I could MAYBE understand a warning if I was flaming someone by calling them retarded. Snap I just said retarded like 5 times, I hope I'm not banned this time.

Damn dood thats retarded!

[Adm Awesome]

MuffinTop, on 09 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Damn dood thats retarded!

oh snap dude, they got yo' name down now.

[Butane9000]

I voted Something entirely different. Specifically I'm concerned on which way they take micro-transactions and whether they make it pay to win. Or just pay for the most useful (non-combat) items in the game. Specifically I don't like models like Tribes where everything is purchasable through in game generated currency (MWO C-bills) but where they are so absurdly expensive it gets counter productive.